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Subject Topic: The future is electric! Post ReplyPost New Topic
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whitenite
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Posted: 06 January 2010 at 11:08am | IP Logged Quote whitenite
lilianGM wrote:

1. How does the battery interchange system work? Unless all the electric cars use the same batteries, how will the service stations be able to carry all the different varieties of batteries reqd eg they cannot expect to hold different types for toyota, nissan, honda, madza etc etc. If u go in to work and back then no problem as u can charge at home and at work but when u r going on a long trip, u will need to do this interchange. Unless they can come up with a battery that can charge in approx 10mins then u dont need the battery interchange scenario.

The theory is, once a govt approves, THEY built the infrastructure. That's why the Company approaches govts first, once that is in the bag, the carmaker will happily join the wagon. Imagine how much the carmaker stands to profit as the 1st in the market with a mass-produced line-up. Eg. come Jan 2012, only ZE (Zero Emission) battery-complianced model on the market is the Nissan Leaf, at $20k. At this price, how many will rush in rather than wait for BMW, or Toyota to come up with theirs! And who would buy a Prius, currently $45k, or a Melbourne-made Camry Hybrid at $30-35k then?!

With govt back-up, they set the standards (battery-type/spec), they built the interchange stns, they regulate the letric market, and then they thump their chest how much they've saved on pollution costs! Carbon offsets et al.

Word is, they're starting in Canberra first, then expanding to all major cities.

lilianGM wrote:

2. How long does the battery lasts? They can only be charged and recharged a finite no of times after which they will have to be scrapped with new batteries purchased. How will this cost be recovered?

I seem to recall Shai mention 6-8 yrs, depending on usage - housewife, commuter, sales rep in that order of lifespan

Don't forget, the batteries belong to the carmaker, the carbuyer leases it (hence the cheap car retail price - you're buying a car & leasing the "engine").

Shai saiys the carmaker can take a 50-60% used battery & send that to S'pore as an "island-wide" special! Basically they can be refurbished, and continually re-used. No issue for the consumer, it doesn't have the end-user's name on it, besides the car-owner will keep exchanging batteries every now n then.

lilianGM wrote:

3. The car parks and shopping centers will need to provide charging bays. This will represent quite a considerable capital cost which will have to be recovered from the customers. How will this $$ be recovered? I can only guess that these places will start charging extra $$ for the charging bays.

Again - govt intervention. These days people want to be seen as environmentally friendly, misnomer as it is for those who drive urban SUVs!

I had someone ask me about the "green qualities" filling up their tank with E10 (ethanol). They were driving a 7-seater Odyssey. I'm like ... "If you walk/ask yr kids to walk the 500meters to the relo's (which they never do), you'll save much more than putting E10 or whatever other scheme you can think of!!"

lilianGM wrote:

4. There is no guarantee that having spent all the $$$ on setting up this infrastructure, a few yrs down the track there will be some new technology which will make all this obsolete. Eg some companies may design a battery that can be recharged by simply adding a chemical or gas to the battery in much the same way as we now fill up our cars with petrol. This will make all the interchange and charging stations obsolete overnight.

Granted, that's a risk. But this technology is Here, and Now, while there is nothing in existence or in the pipeline which can replicate the full potential of the Company's scheme. 

And who's to say the new technology cannot be adapted to be used in existing platform/infrasturture? And who best to undertake this then, again, the govt in collaboration with the carmakers?

It's 3500km Melb-Perth. At 150km per full charge, it'll take 24 interchange stations to complete the journey. Who else could possibly manage this, other than the Fed?

I'm a convert!

But don't equate that with me jumping in to buy the scheme's ZE car the moment it hits the market!



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lilianGM
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Posted: 05 January 2010 at 11:37am | IP Logged Quote lilianGM

The concept is good but my reservations r:

1. How does the battery interchange system work? Unless all the electric cars use the same batteries, how will the service stations be able to carry all the different varieties of batteries reqd eg they cannot expect to hold different types for toyota, nissan, honda, madza etc etc. If u go in to work and back then no problem as u can charge at home and at work but when u r going on a long trip, u will need to do this interchange. Unless they can come up with a battery that can charge in approx 10mins then u dont need the battery interchange scenario.

2. How long does the battery lasts? They can only be charged and recharged a finite no of times after which they will have to be scrapped with new batteries purchased. How will this cost be recovered?

3. The car parks and shopping centers will need to provide charging bays. This will represent quite a considerable capital cost which will have to be recovered from the customers. How will this $$ be recovered? I can only guess that these places will start charging extra $$ for the charging bays.

4. There is no guarantee that having spent all the $$$ on setting up this infrastructure, a few yrs down the track there will be some new technology which will make all this obsolete. Eg some companies may design a battery that can be recharged by simply adding a chemical or gas to the battery in much the same way as we now fill up our cars with petrol. This will make all the interchange and charging stations obsolete overnight.

cheers

Lilian

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whitenite
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Posted: 02 January 2010 at 10:13am | IP Logged Quote whitenite

Cars, that is. For starters.

 http://fora.tv/2009/07/22/The_Electric_Horizon_Shai_Agassi#chapter_02
Above is Australia specific.
 
Earlier global TED version here:
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/shai_agassi_on_electric_cars.html
 
Nissan Leaf Zero Emission (electic):
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5710IH20090802
 
- Renault-Nissan will make the cars, at about half the current Toyota Prius price ...
but... you won't own the battery (nor will you have to replace it, as Prius owners eventually have to do).
- swapped-in batteries will be charged from renewable energy sources
- swapping is to be quick & automatic
- you pay for Km's driven (but may get a refund, eg, if you have to swap your batteries "too often")
- per-Km cost is expected to be LESS THAN petrol-powered cars' fuel costs, but – it gets better – since it will DROP even lower, in future
(above comments adapted from discussion in Whirlpool forum).

1st launch - Israel, then Denmark. Next - Australia! Starts in Canberra, spread to rest of the major cities/country in 2012.
 
Upshot: $20k for a brand new electric car in 2012!

Guess I'll have to hang on to my ol' faithful a li'll longer, at least till after the 2012 launch ...



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